Thanks for the great reviews. In reference to pedals. I have used speedplay in the past on my mountain bike and was not a big fan due to dirt clogging the cleats. Obviously on a road or a tri bike that is not an issue. I currently use Dura Ace Pedals on my tri bike. What advantages does speedplay offer over Dura Ace pedals? Thanks, Michael

michaelmorar:

Thanks for the great reviews. In reference to pedals. I have used speedplay in the past on my mountain bike and was not a big fan due to dirt clogging the cleats. Obviously on a road or a tri bike that is not an issue. I currently use Dura Ace Pedals on my tri bike. What advantages does speedplay offer over Dura Ace pedals? Thanks, Michael

 

I would not use Speed play pedals off road. I prefer the shimano XTR pedals for offroading. The Speed Play pedals are better than Dura Ace for the following reasons:

1. Dual sided entry
2. Easier engagement and exit
3. Lighter
4. Lower profile, better cornering angles and more aero

 

Maybe I missed it in the previous posts but which model speedplay pedals do you use and do you use the stock plates on them or custom ones? Interesting comment about the aero and cornering angles. I have never noticed a cornering ability in pedals that is drastically different from speedplay to others and not an aero factor. Maybe it is because all I will ever ride is Look pedals after I had speedplay pedals.

mawilliams1215:

Maybe I missed it in the previous posts but which model speedplay pedals do you use and do you use the stock plates on them or custom ones? Interesting comment about the aero and cornering angles. I have never noticed a cornering ability in pedals that is drastically different from speedplay to others and not an aero factor. Maybe it is because all I will ever ride is Look pedals after I had speedplay pedals.

Comparing Look pedals, Time pedals, Dura Ace pedals and Speedplay is like comparing Shimano vs Campy vs Sram. They are all good and they all have their advantages. Its all a matter of personal tastes. I don't care what people use I am just telling you my experiences are and if you dont like it thats OK. Aero pedals and cornering angles are a minimal advantage but its still an advantage. Cornering angles are more important in a crit in sharp corners and the slight aero advantage is minimal but helpful in a long ride. I am not knocking any brands just saying what works for me.

Someone asked me to post pics of my rigs so here they are. Both of these frames came out of the box at 910gms. The SLC SL has lighter brakes and skewers so it comes in at 14.1lbs and the R3 comes in at 14.3lbs. Both bikes have Sram Red, same saddles, stems, handlbars and wheels. The stock R3 FSA seat post was ridiculously heavy at 285 gms so I bought a USE shim that converts 32.4mm seat post to a standard 27.2mm seatpost and used the DEDA Black Stick Mag head which weighs with the shim 185gms total, shaving 100 gms. The Deda Black Stick has got to be one of the easiest seat posts out there to adjust. One bolt does all the different adjustments but you can do nose tilt independent of seat fore and aft. Both bikes will go sub 14lbs at 13.7lbs and 13.9lbs with my Mavic CCU wheels.

You can buy the seat post shim here: http://www.wisecyclebuys.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=315

Hi Redcorn, I am interested in getting a set of custom zipps from prowheelbuilder. I am interested in the 404's. i am 210lbs and do a lot of riding including racing crits on the weekends. Could you recommend a setup. i ride a cervelo soloist carbon thanks Peter

psmith:

Hi Redcorn, I am interested in getting a set of custom zipps from prowheelbuilder. I am interested in the 404's. i am 210lbs and do a lot of riding including racing crits on the weekends. Could you recommend a setup. i ride a cervelo soloist carbon thanks Peter

 

You did not say if you prefer clinchers or tubulars. If you plan on trainning and racing with them you really only have one choice and that is to do the clincher Zipp Rim. The Tubular Zipp rim although better than in the past will not survive trainning and racing.   www.prowheelbuilder.com will custom build you a set for heavy riders if you email the owner his name is Richard very nice guy he will answer all your questions but I would go with the Sapim thin bladed spokes, brass nipples and White Industries H2 hubs. the White Industries hubs are the smoothest hubs I have ridden with and they have a slight aero shape to them. The H2 hubs are easy to work on and are very strong. Have you tried to do the custom build button on the site and go through to pick your options?

With Zipp rims and being a clydesdale rider you would need alot of spokes similar to what Zipp advertises as their clydesdale wheels. I suspect your minimum weight would be at 1800gms. Have you considered any other rim companies such as Reynolds? You can use any rim and custom build it with your spokes and your hubs.

Redcorn -

Your post has been invaluable. In your testing, did you happen to know (or notice) the q-factor on the SRAM Red cranks? SRAM suspiciously doesn't post these specs anywhere. Not that it's a deal breaker, but I'm a fairly small rider and already have a hard time with DA cranks. I'm considering upgrading and would appreciate any further info. Thanks again.

jhumble123:

Redcorn -

Your post has been invaluable. In your testing, did you happen to know (or notice) the q-factor on the SRAM Red cranks? SRAM suspiciously doesn't post these specs anywhere. Not that it's a deal breaker, but I'm a fairly small rider and already have a hard time with DA cranks. I'm considering upgrading and would appreciate any further info. Thanks again.

I have searched every where for 6 months trying to find the Q angles for the Red cranks and no one has an answer. I had a friend of mine go to Sea Otter and talked to the Sram Red guys working the booth and even they don't know. I cannot figure out why they don't post the numbers for this. I suspect that its around the same as Shimano because my cleats on my shoes had to be re adjusted when I went from Campy 145.5 Q angle to Zipp 146.0 Q angle to Red to being the same spot as when I had my Shimano Dura Ace cranks. Sram cannot be contacted directly and no bike shop knows what the Q factor is either. I emailed several big online stores including Competitive cyclist and Excelsports and none of them had an answer. I suspect its 147mm same as Dura Ace. I think FSA is also in the 147 Q angle range. The largest Q angle of any crank is the THM Clavicula at 149. Campy has the lowest at 145.5.

If anyone knows the answer please post what the Sram Red Q factor is here.

Just to help simplify the wheels I have tested.  

 Category 1. Sub $900-2000 range the Rolf clinchers and Fulcrum Zero are the winners in this category the wheels in this price range are usually clinchers and can take abuse of commuting, trainning and racing. For tubular wheels in this price range you can have custom built Zipp wheels for about 1700.00 or any other carbon tubular rims custom built but these will be race day only wheels. Other popular wheels in the sub 1000 dollar range are the campy Euro, Mavic Ksyriums, Bontrager series but these don't have the same aero effectiveness as well as weight as the Fulcrums and Rolfs. The clincher wheels in this category are the most durable with the weights averaging between 1400-1600gms. Anything over 1600 gms is to much for climbing and fast accelerations. Anything lower than 1000gms seems like you have to work harder to keep the momemtum going similar to loosing the fly wheel effect on flats or downhills. Sub 1000gms is great for climbing or closing gaps. I base my picks on durability, aero effectiveness, weight, free wheel action, spoke wind up and power transfer properties. I test all my wheels on my computrainer as a guide and SRM on the road.

Category 2. $2000-3000 range you are getting race day wheels only that are usually tubular wheels I would say Campy Bora Ultra, Fulcrum Race and Mavic CCU.  Again other than to look pimp at the next Century ride or club ride, this category is for serious racing, for the money you spend you don't want to ride these in the local crit every week unless you have lots of money to burn.

Category 3. Beyond 3000 dollars again you are getting race day only wheels that are tubulars only Lightweight Gen 3 or the Obmeyer wheels. Wheels in the 3000 dollars and beyond range are for serious racers only that specialize in climbing and time trials not worth spending this kind of money unless you race every weekened or being paid to race. Professional riders like Jan Ulrich and Lance paid for these wheels to help them earn a living. Using these types of wheels for weekend rides is a waste of money unless you have lots of it and don't care.

I have not seen any carbon rim tubulars that can take the stress of commuting, trainning and racing. There four carbon clinchers that can take the abuse of daily rides and racing and thats Bontrager triple X and Aeolus 5.0C, Zipp clincher custom build and Reynolds DV46 C but their added weight and aerodynamics are not any better than the performance of Fulcrums and Rolfs so you spend extra money for more material you don't need.

The most practical wheelsets are still the wheels in the category 1. They are the work horses and cost factor is excellent. Peformance of the category 1 wheels can match the performance of the category 3 wheels depending on purpose and terrain. Hey if you have the dollars and want category 3 wheels get them just for the heck of it who cares. The average joe that does not race but wants good wheels should save money and get the category 1 wheels.

Custom built wheels can be bought here:

http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/zippsemicustom.php

As far as tubulars vs clinchers I am not touching that subject with a ten foot pole. I use clinchers because for me commuting, trainning and racing needs to be all in one solution, so clinchers fullfill that role. Some swear tubulars are the best but it doesnt work for me anymore and I rode exclusively tubulars for 10 years.

As far as ceramic bearings go, I finally have found the ones that work for me and thats the Enduro Zero ceramic bearings, these things roll like no other.

www.superflycycles.com sells them as individual pieces or as a kit. I bought the Enduro bearing press tool and was able to install ceramic bearings on all of my favorite wheels myself.

Nothing I have written here is written in the cycling bible these are just my opinions. I own wheels in all three categories but when it comes down to riding daily, I use the wheels in category 1 and race the wheels in category 1.

Thank you again for passing along your wealth of information Redcorn! You have been more than helpful, and please keep up the GREAT work!!!

Redcorn:

The Speed Play pedals are better than Dura Ace for the following reasons:

1. Dual sided entry
2. Easier engagement and exit
3. Lighter
4. Lower profile, better cornering angles and more aero

Just an extra comment about the Speedplay pedals - I've used X series pedals (X2s and X5s) for 4 years now, and agree with all the advantages that Redcorn highlights - plus I like the float.  But, looking at Redcorn's pictures its obvious that he lives somewhere warm and sunny.  Similarly, when I bought my first pair of Speedplay pedals I lived in Johannesburg.  Since then I've lived in the UK and Vancouver...

Basically, no amount of re-greasing can keep these pedals running smooth in seriously wet climates - the grease gets washed out *very* easily.  I fell in love with Speedplay pedals living in a dry climate, and have tolerated their faults ever since I moved to wetter parts of the world because the positives make me reluctant to change.  It's obvious that Speedplay's designers have done very little real-world testing beyond California.

I'd also add that the cleats are very fragile - any situation where you might have to put a foot down on a poorly surfaced road (i.e. the real world) is liable to pick up a few grains of sand - once in the cleat, these can make it near-impossible to clip in until the cleat is taken off and cleaned.

Finally, outside of the USA, they are very expensive - for X2s, in South Africa, the UK and Canada (the 3 places I've bought them), you're looking at adding an extra $50 to the US list price.  There is a similar price premium on replacement cleats as well.

All that said, my knees like the pedals, so I'm stuck with them for the moment.

I just want to second the positive review of the Enduro ceramic bearings by Redcorn.  And (maybe I missed it in your review) say that I have the bearings for my BB and like it.  I haven't replaced my wheel bearings yet but that's on the short list.

And if you order a t-shirt from Superfly (thought it was a cool name) be aware the neck is small.  Hate that...

mawilliams1215:

I have never noticed a cornering ability in pedals that is drastically different from speedplay to others and not an aero factor. Maybe it is because all I will ever ride is Look pedals after I had speedplay pedals.

Ride in crits and you will sure notice cornering angle!  I can't tell you how many times I've seen/heard people skip a pedal in a corner.  That includes myself on my old Time Crit pedals - the right one probably had about a quarter inch taken off the outside edge from doing "scrapers" while racing.  More modern pedals have increased the cornering clearance quite a bit to where I think it is less of an issue than it used to be.  Racing a crit, you need every bit of advantage you can get, which sometimes means that extra pedal stroke or even half stroke as you come out of a corner makes a little difference in how much you have to work to stay in contact and therefore how tired you are by the end of the race.  I personally never trusted Looks because I saw a lot of people clip out of them during sprints, which is a very scary maneuver almost always resulting in skin-on-pavement.  I'm sure the newer Looks, especially those considered "pro level" don't have this issue anymore but by this time I seem to be stuck on using Times.

Redcorn, What are those bottle cages on your beautiful R3? Where did you get them and what do they weigh? Any problems holding a tall/large water bottle on rough roads? Thanks, Karuna P.S. Why didn't you go with the R3-SL?