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Riders in/out

Last post 01-16-2010 8:05 PM by THY. 161 replies.
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  • 09-05-2009 9:49 PM In reply to

    • gerard
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-01-2007
    • Neuchatel
    • Posts 140

    Re: Riders in/out

    mudrock:
    http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/transfers.asp Check out what Cycling Quotient has to say; a lot of big riders leaving CTT. Pauwels, Gerrans (thank you Van Poppel for the first 2), Hammond, Haussler, Klier (question marks about the last 3). Just as Saxo riders got fed up with sacrificing their chances for Sastre last year, so are some of CTT's most ambitious riders on the way out now.

    The CQ ranking stuff is obviously highly inaccurate. There are potential riders mentioned we have zero interest in and never spoken to, Haussler is now completely gone from the list despite having signed until 2012, etc, etc. As for Carlos at CSC, out of the 29 teammates Carlos had at CSC last year, I will bet you that 27 would still go through a fire for him. Two would not. I have no idea why you would even think that, who sacrificed anything for Carlos last year? He wasn't appointed team leader, and until Alpe d'Huez where he had the strength to attack and Frank Schleck did not, the team really rode for Frank. So most of the sacrifices were not done for Carlos.

    The riders at CSC liked riding for Carlos, in fact, several with their contracts up would like to join CTT, but we have no room as almost nobody is leaving. I just spent four days at Interbike, and saw a lot of (ex-) CSC riders and staff. It's amazing how every single one of them can see what apparently most on the outside cannot. They all know how important Carlos is for a team, that he is the best in the world to make a team function and that he is one of our key success factors. Those who can't understand that, too bad, I would just advice not to start your own cycling team.

    As for a lot of big riders leaving CTT, I guess by now you have seen that none of the big riders are leaving, in fact they are all signing extensions. I think in the end 4-5 are leaving, a very low number compared to other teams, even teams with the budget to keep everybody if the riders wanted to stay. I don't see the problem with that, I know that some people think the Pauwels situation is something to get excited about, but the reality is that the Belgian teams never gave him a chance, CTT did, he was able to make himself visible, and in the end he was torn between Sky and CTT. He really didn't leave because of JP. He ended up with a very good contract, so it's all good. If you want to get upset about something, how about two Belgian ProTour teams who overlook such a local talent? Sometimes it seems people suspect a lot more intrige than is really there.

    All our key riders, like Thor, Heino, Andreas, Carlos, Roger, Ignatas, Brett, etc, etc, etc are all here for the long run. For those who are looking for big name signings, with the core of the team staying, there is no reason to expect a big announcement. As for people wanting or not wanting to be on the team, I think the 300 applications we have received from riders say enough.

    One more comment on the ProTour license, we are a Continental Pro team with Wildcard, which basically means we fulfill the same financial and administrative requirements as a ProTour team. Our budget is guaranteed for the four years, the bank guarantees are in place, and unlike some ProTour teams, ours aren't needed as we pay everybody on time (which where we come from isn't really anything special of course). The big difference between ProTour and non-ProTour is that if you get the ProTour license, you are obliged to do all ProTour races. And that's too much for us, we want to do some of them but not all (for example this year the Tour de Suisse but not the Dauphine, and not the Tour of Poland). Nothing against these races, but with a team of 22-25 riders, you are stretching your riders too thinly if you want to do all that, especially if you run into some injuries. The concensus is that you need 28 riders if you want to do a good job in all ProTour events, and we obviously don't have that many. And of course a big difference is that our budget is smaller. While the ProTour doesn't require any specific amount, it is clear that with a limited budget, it's better to stay a bit smaller than to stretch yourself too far.

    In closing, I truly think it's nice to see that so many are passionate about how this team does, but I really wonder why the reactions have to be so extreme and sometimes hateful towards people you really don't know at all, other than what you may perceive in the media. I think everybody would have a lot more fun with this sport without those excesses.

    Gerard Vroomen
    Cervelo SA
    www.cervelo.com
  • 09-06-2009 10:20 AM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    gerard:
    I don't see the problem with that, I know that some people think the Pauwels situation is something to get excited about, but the reality is that the Belgian teams never gave him a chance, CTT did, he was able to make himself visible, and in the end he was torn between Sky and CTT. He really didn't leave because of JP.

    So Serge Pauwels is leaving us.. Sad [:(]
    Then we will need at least one good climber as a replacement. In addition, you also said that 3 - 4 guys is also about to leave.. It will be interesting to see who joins us.


    Otherwise, I just want say that you wrote a very good and "needed" post, Gerard. Thank you, It's about time! Smile [:)]


    "Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever."
  • 09-06-2009 8:34 PM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

     Thanks for taking the time to speak from your side to fans of Cervelo and Cervelo Test Team,Gerard!

  • 09-07-2009 10:16 AM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    A couple of Bad News:
    Hayden Roulston signs with Team Columbia-HTC and VeloNews also confirms the news..

    THY:
    Marcello Albasini's son, Michael Albasini (Team Columbia - HTC)
    Situation, I don't know..

    Michael Albasini looks like he will stay with Team Columbia - HTC

    THY:
    Alexander Kristoff (Team Joker Bianchi)
    Situation, he is a junior. One of the most consistent sprinters in the U23-class. Team Columbia - HTC has scouted on him. Former Norwegian Road Champion after beating Thor Hushovd in the sprint! Could be a good lead-out man.

    Alexander Kristoff is on his way to BMC Racing Team


    "Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever."
  • 09-07-2009 12:00 PM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    THY:
    A couple of Bad News:
    Hayden Roulston signs with Team Columbia-HTC and VeloNews also confirms the news..

     

    Another guy Cervelo took a chance in signing  (basically fired from Team Discovery for a police incident) and boosted his profile riding for CTT. Wishing Hayden the best ...

  • 09-08-2009 9:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    jamieh:
    THY: That's just fine, who would like a rider who clearly don't have the motivation to continue.(re:Gerrans)


    Now that's what I call a change of tune oh wise and insightful THY....Maybe you need to take a course in reading and analysing peoples body language before criticising because you are obviously way off in that field. Just stick to the copy and pasting of race reports, atleast you get that right!!

    There is nothing that indicates that he wants to continue with us.
    He doesn't reject the rumors, which he easily could do..
    As for body language everyone can make mistake, maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not.

    If he doesn't have the motivation and desire to continue here with us, then he may as well leave.


    "Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever."
  • 09-08-2009 9:31 PM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    THY:
    If he doesn't have the motivation and desire to continue here with us, then he may as well leave.
     

     

    And no doubt Teeam Sky won't make the same *** up's as Von Poppel!! GO SIMON!!

  • 09-08-2009 10:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    mudrock:
    jamieh, even though True Blue Cervelo Test Team fans like THY or Deepcover are loath to admit it, Van Poppel made a big mistake by not picking Gerrans for the Tour. Gerrans answered by walking away from the team. CTT knows it's mistake, doubly so with Simon's win at the Vuelta. No need to twist the knife now. Let's be happy for Simon.

    Can you just please ... .. ...... . .. . ...!!!


    Facts (Look at the reaction and response!):
    THY:
    3) My Tour de France-Team:
    Carlos Sastre Candil
    Thor Hushovd
    José Ángel Gómez Marchante
    Volodymir Gustov
    Brett Lancaster
    Heinrich Haussler
    Simon Gerrans
    Xavier Florencio Cabre
    Andreas Klier


    Reserves:
    Íñigo Cuesta López de Castro
    Philip Deignan
    Roger Hammond
    Dominique Rollin
    Hayden Roulston

    THY:
    Look at this!!!
    "Well I just got a call from my DS. I'm still digesting the news I didn't make the tour team. I'm pretty disappointed. What do u all think?"

    Simon Gerrans won a stage in the last years Tour de France and this years Giro!!
    He had an excellent spring classics season, with top ten i all the Ardennes classics!



    R3Perth:
    No Gerrans, is extremely disapointing, a lot of unhappy people, particularly in Australia!!



    THY:
    Yeah, I think it's a strange line-up, 4 climbers and 5 sprinters and riders to the flat parts!!
    I thought it would have been the other way around..


    "Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever."
  • 09-09-2009 12:07 AM In reply to

    • mudrock
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-23-2008
    • Finger Lakes NY
    • Posts 701

    Re: Riders in/out

    Well, THY, from your last post, you make the case that you supported Gerrans selection for the Tour team. That's fine, I won't argue. And yet you kept arguing with the Aussie fans like MrR3, jamieh, AeroSlave and so on about his exclusion. And when I made the point that riders never forget being shirked, you argued with me. Sure enough, Pauwels and Gerrans went elsewhere for 2010.

    When fans of a particular rider vent on this forum because that rider is denied, just let them vent. Why always defend CTT's bonehead moves?

    Alex
  • 09-09-2009 1:13 AM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    mudrock:
    When fans of a particular rider vent on this forum because that rider is denied, just let them vent. Why always defend CTT's bonehead moves?
     

     

    ROCK ON MUDROCK!!!!!

  • 09-09-2009 6:43 AM In reply to

    • Mr R3
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-13-2007
    • Adelaide, South Australia
    • Posts 264

    Re: Riders in/out

    mudrock:
    Well, THY, from your last post, you make the case that you supported Gerrans selection for the Tour team. That's fine, I won't argue. And yet you kept arguing with the Aussie fans like MrR3, jamieh, AeroSlave and so on about his exclusion. And when I made the point that riders never forget being shirked, you argued with me. Sure enough, Pauwels and Gerrans went elsewhere for 2010.

    When fans of a particular rider vent on this forum because that rider is denied, just let them vent. Why always defend CTT's bonehead moves?

    An honorary Australian. ;)

     

    gerard:

    As for a lot of big riders leaving CTT, I guess by now you have seen that none of the big riders are leaving, in fact they are all signing extensions. I think in the end 4-5 are leaving, a very low number compared to other teams, even teams with the budget to keep everybody if the riders wanted to stay. I don't see the problem with that, I know that some people think the Pauwels situation is something to get excited about, but the reality is that the Belgian teams never gave him a chance, CTT did, he was able to make himself visible, and in the end he was torn between Sky and CTT. He really didn't leave because of JP. He ended up with a very good contract, so it's all good. If you want to get upset about something, how about two Belgian ProTour teams who overlook such a local talent? Sometimes it seems people suspect a lot more intrige than is really there.

    All our key riders, like Thor, Heino, Andreas, Carlos, Roger, Ignatas, Brett, etc, etc, etc are all here for the long run. For those who are looking for big name signings, with the core of the team staying, there is no reason to expect a big announcement. As for people wanting or not wanting to be on the team, I think the 300 applications we have received from riders say enough.

    ... 

    In closing, I truly think it's nice to see that so many are passionate about how this team does, but I really wonder why the reactions have to be so extreme and sometimes hateful towards people you really don't know at all, other than what you may perceive in the media. I think everybody would have a lot more fun with this sport without those excesses.

    Did I just read, above, that gerard considers "none of the big riders are leaving next year"?! "All our key riders are staying"?!

    Wow. A breathtakingly disrespectful - and also a very rude - statement, given the circumstances of the past few months coupled with the last 24 hours. A real slap in the face to Simon Gerrans, really. It seems he owes very little to those who hold such sentiments.

    Firstly, can anyone just enlighten me as to exactly what category of rider Gerrans falls into, if not a "big" or "key" rider to have in any team? 

    Has he not yet proven his worth at Grand Tour standard (now at all three of them)? How many stage wins count before a rider is valuable to the team for whom he crosses the line first with its name on his jersey, providing exposure to millions on that team's behalf? At what point does one become a valuable rider rather than an expendable one who, impliedly, "we don't mind getting rid of next year"?

    Amazing if gerard considers him an expendable also-ran who's merely been getting lucky at every Grand Tour he rides in (when he is actually selected to do so) recently. I feel very disappointed to read those words from gerard - a mythical guy whose words tend to actually mean something (unless of course they are given in support of Sastre the very next day after a Sastre press conference - for which Sastre, himself, later officially apologises and regrets)..

    I mean no offence, but wow...what a slap in the face to Gerrans. A parting blow - and you speak of suspecting snubs/intrigue? What can be expected with that type of attitude?

    It secondly seems to me very disingenuous to take a belated swipe at passionate fans who can only guess at why such dumb decisions were ever made - at the actual time that they were made! The very same fans who come straight onto this forum to cry "say it ain't so!" and seek the answers which gerard and his hierarchy failed to provide  - in either the media or in official team statements - at the time in question. Even Simon Gerrans himself was left scratching his head. But - full credit to him - he knuckles down and plays his cards as the professional team player he is - and lo and behold he has now won yet another Grand Tour stage for gerard's team. That just serves to evidence his own integrity as a team player. Dare I suggest a "key rider"?

    And to now say that sometimes "people suspect more intrigue than is really there"? Well then the answer is simple, gerard: provide valid reasons for ostensibly stupid decisions as and when they are made. Give simple, honest, straight forward reasons. You can very quickly reduce the tendency for people to suspect intrigue that way.

    You were very quick to post a blog the immediate day after Carlos Sastre blew his stack and embarrassed himself in front of a laughing press conference. Perhaps such bias promotes intrigue in your adoring public when you remain silent immediately after stupid - or at least highly questionable - decisions? I think several around here (and especially many cycling fans in Australia) might have valued your comments and guidance on the logic of his exclusion at that time - but it now appears quite obvious why you omitted any comment then - and now in your post above. Not even a mention.

    I think it's very easy, long after the event, to slide into your forum and provide a certain (disappointing) perspective of Gerrans' expendability - which certainly implies strong evidence of "intrigue" and a "snub". But please don't be surprised if such fans react "extremely" and "sometimes hateful" when absolutely no valid (or any) reason is given for such exclusions when recent Grand Tour form is taken into account. Current Grand Tour form. Two stage wins in a season - not a key rider? Please.

    Clearly you consider you cut Serge Pauwels a favour in even gracing him with a Cervelo this season. You might at least afford some humility to a bloke who just won you another Grand Tour stage yesterday.

    Sheesh.

    Darren

    - 2006 R3 (SRAM Red, Zipp Team Issue)
    - 2006 Soloist Carbon (SRAM Red, Fulcrum Racing Zero)
    - 2009 Ridley Noah (DA 7900, Zipp 404)
  • 09-09-2009 8:41 AM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    Mr R3, What a fantastic read that is absolutely spot on. Thankyou...
  • 09-09-2009 12:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    Mr R3, Darren, Where did gerard said that Simon is leaving?
    When gerard is saying that all key riders is staying, why do you think that Simon Gerrans isn't staying?
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    mudrock:
    And yet you kept arguing with the Aussie fans like MrR3, jamieh, AeroSlave and so on about his exclusion.

    I never did that's a lie.
    The only thing I said was that don't be rude. Being rude and writing "mocking" messages isn't an argument!
    Another thing I tried to do was to try to explain the possible reason that they didn't chose him.
    That doesn't mean that I agree with the decision makers!


    mudrock:
    And when I made the point that riders never forget being shirked, you argued with me. Sure enough, Pauwels and Gerrans went elsewhere for 2010.

    You are, everyone are just speculating!
    I said if they are professionals, then they already have forgotten the case. Such things happen all the time. Greg LeMond sacrificed himself for Bernard Hinault, and that was much bigger than this case!


    mudrock:
    When fans of a particular rider vent on this forum because that rider is denied, just let them vent. Why always defend CTT's bonehead moves?

    I don't defend the decision, I try to explain the possible reason why they did so.


    "Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever."
  • 09-09-2009 12:10 PM In reply to

    Re: Riders in/out

    THY:
    THY:
    Alexander Kristoff (Team Joker Bianchi)
    Situation, he is a junior. One of the most consistent sprinters in the U23-class. Team Columbia - HTC has scouted on him. Former Norwegian Road Champion after beating Thor Hushovd in the sprint! Could be a good lead-out man.

    Alexander Kristoff is on his way to BMC Racing Team


    BMC adds youth to experienced 2010 roster - Kristoff sign with growing squad


    "Pain is temporary, quitting lasts forever."
  • 09-09-2009 12:19 PM In reply to

    • mudrock
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-23-2008
    • Finger Lakes NY
    • Posts 701

    Re: Riders in/out

    I also am scratching my head at Cervelo's lack of appreciation for Gerran's wins for the team. Of course Simon won that stage at the Vuelta after Gerard's post, but they still don't appreciate his talent. Gerrans reminds me of Eric Dekker, that great Dutch classics and grand tour rider who was unbeatable in small group sprints and had a great nose for getting in the right breakaway. That type of race savvy, put together with a body that doesn't lose strength over a 3-week race, is worth it's weight in gold. CTT will look back at Simon's departure from the team with regret.
    Alex
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