I just got a 51cm SLC-SL bike and while I was negotiating a slow turn coming to a stop the front wheel hit my toes and if it wasn't that I was already stopping I might have fallen down. After reviewing what had just happened I noticed that I do not have clearence and probably just a matter of time that I hit the pavement. I'm sure it's a combination between the 700 wheels and the size of the frame. When I got home I thought that maybe by moving my cleats further up might help but they're all already as forward as they can go. If it matters I have shimano dura ace pedals on campy record 11 170 crank arms. Switching to 650 wheels is not an option for me. My next option was maybe switching to small crank arms but not sure if they come in smaller sizes. So let me hear from you 51cm SLC-SL frame owners. What do you do about it??

DON"T move your cleats if they are set to what fits you - you'd be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Toe overlap is just a fact of life on the smaller frame sizes. Just stay aware of it when you're doing turnarounds and such and you'll be OK. Nothing wrong. You just have to get used to it.

 That's what I was thinking that I have to get used to it but I'm afraid that one day I will not be thinking about it and I will go down.

It's only going to happen at very slow speeds and then your toe(s) have to be at the front of the stroke. It will happen rarely and very soon it will not bother you. There is a solution: cut your toes off and buy smaller shoes.

I don't want to be the self-imposed moderator and say search the archives first.

But, if you did you would realize toe-overlap is a well recognized phenomenon on the smaller cervelo's 48, 51 and occasionally 54 R3 and S-series bikes depending upon your setup and shoe size etc.

 But, truth be told it is ONLY a problem in your head. I lived with it for 2 years on my old 51cm R3, with lots of km's. It doesn't affect riding one bit, except for the times when you sharply turn the bar to say make a u-turn from a standing position. You will quickly compensate when you feel the wheel hit your toe. In day to day riding I don't think it will ever cause you an accident.

cervelo is well aware of this and in fact, the XS RS was designed to try to eliminate toe-overlap with a modification through the use of 650 wheels.

Here is what it says on RS page:

Eliminated toe-overlap by using 650c wheels for the XS size.

Toe overlap is not a problem for experienced riders, but can be intimidating for some. Using 650c wheels in the XS size is the only way to solve this problem without compromising the weight distribution and thus handling.

Every solution that eliminates toe-overlap but keeps 700c wheels suffers in handling.

Explanation for the 650c wheel solution on the XS size: A smaller frame means the front wheel moves closer to the rider’s feet, causing toe-overlap. While inconvenient at walking pace, this issue disappears at normal riding speeds as the actual steering angles become very small.

There are four ways to deal with this:

1) Accept toe overlap, after all it is not a problem if the rider is aware of it at low speeds, and it does not occur at higher speeds.

2) Use 650c wheels, which allow us to move the wheel closer but thanks to its smaller diameter it will never touch the rider’s toes.

3) Leave the front wheel far out front, but then the weight distribution will not be balanced.

4) Mess up the rider position by moving the rider forward instead of the wheel and handlebar rearward.

But a changed position will not be comfortable, and the weight distribution will again be compromised. Compromised weight distribution and therefore handling make options 3 and 4 unacceptable, leaving options 1 & 2. If you are a racer and neutral support is important, or you want commonality of parts with other 700c bikes, then option 1 is the best solution. We offer this on most of our road bikes. Option 2 is a great solution if you are concerned about toe overlap, never need neutral support and carry a spare for yourself (since your riding partners will likely have only 700c spare tubes, although even those work in a pinch, just fold them in – no problem).

thom_y:

1) Accept toe overlap, after all it is not a problem if the rider is aware of it at low speeds, and it does not occur at higher speeds.

 

A agree with that.

I have same problem with my R3 51

I have just to be carefull when I turn back to the road

i have it on my 54 S1. it's a fact of the frame geometery. you get used to it and before you know it incorporate it into your turning/bikehandling.

iridebears, you are riding an all out racing bike, toe overlap is a fact of life on almost any well designed racing frame usually in sizes 54cm and smaller. Most people on a road racing machine will seldom find themselves riding small circles at low speeds. Rather then seek a frame without overlap, the solution is to learn to compensate your pedal position when turning at low speeds….the same concept as learning to place your inboard pedal high when entering a tight corner in order to avoid pedal scrape.
Good luck.
EM3

 

 

eddymerckx3:

iridebears, you are riding an all out racing bike, toe overlap is a fact of life on almost any well designed racing frame usually in sizes 54cm and smaller.

Disagree,

I replaced my 51cm crashed R3 (with toe-overlap) for a Medium Cento Uno and it doesn't have toe overlap. My 54cm (52 equivalent) Trek 5200 doesn't have it. I have rented Orbea's, Treks, Cannondale, and Specialized road bikes while vacationing and none of them had toe-overlap that I noticed.

It was only my R3 that I ever experienced it on. Funny thing was I didn't notice when I took it for a long test ride, but I only noticed it after a few rides when I started from stopped position and sharply turned around the bike. What was that I wondered ?

I agree 100% with EddyMerckx and disagree with Thom_y. I'm riding a 54 R3 and I have toe overlap, but it comes with the all out racing geometry. I'm also riding a 54 Caad9 and I have toe overlap. The Caad9 is another notoriously all out racing frame. Where is the problem? You just need to get used to it and enjoy your pure racing machine. I'm starting not to like bikes if they don't have toe overlap...Maybe am wrong but I'm starting to think that the geometry is not so 'racey' if there's no toe overlap for sizes 54 and below... Manny

I agree 100% with EddyMerckx and disagree with Thom_y. I'm riding a 54 R3 and I have toe overlap, but it comes with the all out racing geometry. I'm also riding a 54 Caad9 and I have toe overlap. The Caad9 is another notoriously all out racing frame. Where is the problem? You just need to get used to it and enjoy your pure racing machine. I'm starting not to like bikes if they don't have toe overlap...Maybe am wrong but I'm starting to think that the geometry is not so 'racey' if there's no toe overlap for sizes 54 and below... Manny

thom_y:

eddymerckx3:

iridebears, you are riding an all out racing bike, toe overlap is a fact of life on almost any well designed racing frame usually in sizes 54cm and smaller.

Disagree,

I replaced my 51cm crashed R3 (with toe-overlap) for a Medium Cento Uno and it doesn't have toe overlap. My 54cm (52 equivalent) Trek 5200 doesn't have it. I have rented Orbea's, Treks, Cannondale, and Specialized road bikes while vacationing and none of them had toe-overlap that I noticed.

It was only my R3 that I ever experienced it on. Funny thing was I didn't notice when I took it for a long test ride, but I only noticed it after a few rides when I started from stopped position and sharply turned around the bike. What was that I wondered ?

So as not to mislead the OP, toe overlap is certainly not specific to Cervelo. It's been around since long before there were Cervelos. I have toe overlap on my 56cm CAAD3, and just barely on my 56 RS. But then I have my cleats set all the way back on the shoe (otherwise I wouldn't have TO on the RS). It simply depends on frame size, geometry, crank arm length, shoe size, and cleat position on the shoe. That said, it's just not an issue.

 Like most ppl already mentioned in this thread that toe overlap is a fact of 'smaller' frame. Both my commuter and racing bike has toe overlap, 54cm and 56cm respectively. The thing is no to pedal around corners and push the outside foot down. How may pro cyclist or triathlete pedal around sharp corner or hairpins?   If you have to pedal thru the corners, you approaching them too slow, go in faster NEXT time, not this time. It's way more dangerous to correct speed while you're in it than learn from it and correct it for next time.

If you're still considering changing/moving cleat, cranks or wheel sizes,  pls consider the consequences. Moving or changing:

- cleats - moving you power output and comfort

- cranks - same as above

- wheel size - new fork, wheels, tyres, not sure how you tackle 650c rear wheel with existing frame unless you have 650c from and 700c rear

Sounds lots of hassle to me....

I guess those who ride bike with toe overlap will live with it.  It'll initially take a bit of thought, but it'll come. Think about riding a bike, it takes a bit of balance and coordination to get it right (when you learn to bike when you're a kid), but now you pedal and turn without too much thought (i assumed). It'll become second nature.

Good luck

I certainly agree with those who say this is not unique to Cervelo.  I have a 52cm Kestrel talon w/ 172.5 cranks and I wear size 10 US shoes (SIDI T2) with the cleats in the rearmost position I can get.

I 'm going to disagree with those who say that it is never a problem at high speeds if you know what you are doing.  Now, I will preface this by saying that I think the bike is a bit too small for me, especially in the Tri position and I recently tried a 54cm P4 that felt perfect.  But as a road bike, I really like the feel with the seat at the UCI legal position and a 12cm stem.

 Anyway  here are two examples of where I have a problem with it:

 1.On one of my regular loops, there is a turn that is about 60 degrees.  I can take this turn at full speed in my aerobars, which often is 25-30 mph due to a tailwind or due to taking turns leading with a training partner.  Ideally, I would just keep pedaling normally through here, but if I do, I sometimes brush the front wheel with my outside foot.  Stopping pedalling for 10-12 seconds is not something one should have to accept on a turn like this.

2.The second place where I have a problem is in a race if I am not in the top 10-15 riders.  As I'm sure most of you know, 90 degree turns on squirrelly roads  will often cause everyone except the top handful to slow massively from a 25-30 mile an hour typical pack pace to as low as 10mph if you are closer to the back.  But the re-acceleration starts right at the mid-point of the turn, and if I wait with my outside foot down an extra 2 seconds, I have to spend a lot more effort catching back up.  If I don't wait, then once again I brush my wheel.  Now, this IS a pretty slow speed, but it does not fit the category of something you'll rarely run into.  Of course, the answer is to always hang with the top 10-15, but that is often not possible.

 

As I said, I think I need a bit bigger bike, but it's not true that the problem only occurs at slow speeds or if you are not doing the turn correctly - in the real world, you often end up taking turns differently than the textbook 90 degree turn in the road drops.

I have a 51" S1 and my toes also hit the front wheel on tight turning circles, but you do get used to it. At first i was horrified and thought it was come kind of schoolboy error that my LBS had made during my fit. I had visions of crashing At high speed because of it, but you tend to lean rather than turn at high speeds and i haven't come off it yet as a result of the overlap. Rain, leaves and wind yes, but not toe overlap. I also thought that adjusting cleats would sort it out, but i was loathed to change them as they were fitted correctly.

I have just learned that i have to drop my left crank arm when wanting to turn left, and visa versa. It does become intuitive after a few time 

 

Stu