Long time lurker....first time poster....

 New owner of 2010 R3 SL, Campag Record equipped, Deda finishing kit...

 Just need a set of wheels for her. Had Corima Aero tubular's on my last bike. Nice wheels, tubs ace...BUT tub off if the wheel ever needed trueing. Replacement tubs nearly £40 a go. Was considering going full carbon clincher, but after trawling the forums am reading of problems with brake tracks overheating...

 So guys....recommendations anyone. Looking to ride them to train ocassionally on them and race so want something durable. Would really like Zipp 404's but have read so much about poor durability that really put off.

 Have looked at the FFWD range, in particular FFWD F5R tubular's. Anyone any experience of FFWD wheels ?

 Recommendations on wheels guys and gals ?

 

 a good place to start reading up on some independent test on aero/inertia and stiffness for popular brands... http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-15505311.html

 assuming frmo choice of R3SL that weight is prime for you so...really has to be tubs, really has to be 1200 grams absolute max to do justice to the intention of your frame :o)

have ridden zipp404 tubs on my own R3 for 3 years... including lots of cobbles (european city type, not Roubaix!), mountain decents etc, and not yet needed to true them or do any maintainance other than clean them!

Enjoy, wheel buying almost as fun as frame choice! :o)

 

<Would really like Zipp 404's but have read so much about poor durability that really put off. >

I haven't seen it, nor heard it.

I have 1000 miles on my 2009 Zipp 404's and they're perfect. I know many folks locally that use them as their everyday wheels, no problems.

I don't and wouldn't ride them on Maui, though. WAY too much wind. (lot of 25-35mph crosswinds).

Aloha,

Jeff

I had looked also at the Mavic range, in particular the Cosmic Carbone SL's and SLR's.

 With the overheating problems with the full carbon clinchers i read about, is a carbon wheel better with an aluminium brake track if i decide to go down the clincher route. I appreciate there heavier than a tubular, but with the build being so light anyway without the wheels, i could may afford a few extra  grams on the wheelset.

Anyone used the Cosmic SL's or SLR's ?

404 clinchers had a few bad reviews a few years back - rims cracking, braking surface delaminating. Dunno if they're better now, but they are a heavy wheel; too heavy for an R3SL. FFWDs are heavy too. Wouldn't bother myself. I'd look at Campy Neutrons for clinchers, or Hyperons for carbon clinchers if you want a factory wheel (disclosure: Campy fanboyat work). Otherwise, some Edge rims around hubs of your choice. I think Barry at Bespoke in North London has them available.

 Hyperons

Was really looking for deep section carbon wheels. Just undecided on whether to go for tubulars again, or switch to full carbon clincher for convienence.

 So my question refined is this....which deep section carbon wheels ?

Any also, what experiences do people have on here of full carbon clinchers ?

 Your thoughts and comments welcome...

 Tubs vs clinchers is a real toss up...  personally I wouldnt mind one of the top end carbon clinchers, as on balance performance issues now seem to have been sorted.  I ride zipp404 tubs and have yet to puncture in a couple of years use(shouldnt write that...tempting fate). Have worn out tread before puncturing! BUT if you ride far off the beaten track, it is a pain to carry a spare, and diminishes part of the performance advantage. And thats the kicker, the consensus of most people and racers is that the tubs will ride better, lighter rotating mass at wheel, smoother ride, less rolling resistance, better road feel etc etc.

 

On brands - I love my zipps... lighter than many climbing wheels, strong, and very very aero in tests. (see the roue artisinale tests above).  BUT as a purist too, I have to say that on an R3SL frame, with Record components... a set of Boras will look the real deal, and also perform at the highest standard... That whole set up is easily a world class tour winning combination.   If money is no object Lightweights are a great option too of course :o) and also go well with campy stuff in subjective style terms :o))

In fact on reflection, on such a great bike: get the tubs, live like you only live once (as we do) and if worst happens once every two years and you get stuck somewhere with double flats...call a cab and swallow the bill. Then you get to ride 99% of the time on a perfect race bike.

 

LachR3, you make some very good points indeed. If only money were no object. I got the frame on the basis of  "live like you only live once"  and got the full Record groupset lastyear on the same basis :-o Bora's and Lightweights out the question :-(

I got offered a set of Bora's a month or so ago by a mate, second hand, mint condition £1,200. Had JUST bought the R3SL and could not afford them at the time, needless to say they got snapped up. Was wounded :-(

 I rode Corima Aero carbon tubulars for the last two years, was using the Tufo tubs so that all i needed to carry incase of a flat was a bottle of their extreme sealant and a couple of CO2 cannisters. First time i punctured on them, used the sealant, it was effective instantly, tub back up to 120psi and on my way. Rode the same tub without changing it for 5 months no problems, punctured it again on a ride, used the sealant again, again no problems. Changed tub after that just for precaution but it was still fine and never lost pressure. Was totally confident riding the tubs all the time and just carrying sealant. Then last year was out riding in remote part of the Peak district and punctured, but problem was in the sidewall, sealant did not work and was stranded. Ended up taking my shoes off and walking a good few miles till i could get help. Put my off using tubs a bit.

 What do you carry by way of a spare when riding your 404's

Was really looking to get some 404 tubulars, but had read more than a few reviews of durability issues. Was talking to LBS and they did say that the 09 models with much tougher. If i'm gonna spend £1500 on some wheels i want to use them as much as i can and get my moneys worth. For this reason i want something i can train on and race on. Are the 404's durable enough for this ?

The Reynolds range looks interesting, have read good reports of solid wheelsets, Assaults, Strikes, DV46UL C's and DV46UL T's, the DV46 tubular lighter than the 404 too by some 150g 

 Again, comments welcome. Also would post pic of my new beauty if for the life of me i could work out how to post a pic on this site. Hey i'm no computer wizard but i'm not dim either...but i am bummed out trying to get my bike on here...

Any further opinions would be greatly valued.

 This is a dream build bike for me. Lusted after a Cervelo for a long time. Have looked at hundred of bikes on this forum to see what looks good but as i have the 2010 R3 SL model i can find no pictures yet of this.

Would like to make sure i get the right set of wheels for my new baby. Can't wait to unleash her at the first race of the season...

 +1 for Boras if you're going for tubs.

For clinchers, Edge 45 rims would be top of my list, followed by Reynolds. Corima make a deep carbon clincher rim, IIRC.

 I have a two month old R3, oh how it rocks. I am currently riding on ROL race SL, a great and very reliable alloy wheel. I am looking for carbon deep dish clincher as well. The Reynolds Assault seems to have a lot of support and look fantastic on the R3, but when I talked to lbs they said that they were having issues with Reynolds, and were giving Mavic Cosmic the hard sell. Anyone having problems with Reynolds?

 I've never ridden Reynolds.. but they seem to have a good rep. and decent durability. And if they're lighter than the 404, thats a good start for an SL frame's spirit :o)

As far as Zipp goes, all I know is that a) yes the new ones have improved durability for impacts and bumps etc... esp the 303 (which if you must go for a clincher option and need an alloy rim for hard braking etc would be a great option) .  b) the 2007 set of 404s I ride has never needed even the slightest truing or adjustment.  I'm fairly light and most of that time was riding relatively smooth roads in the US (but including lots of steep up+downs, hard braking, + some big ass climbs and decents in the rockies. Now I live+ride in Paris with lots of badly maintained cobbled streets to get out of town and my 404s+zipp tangente tubs (made by vittoria btw) are as true as ever and much smoother than my clincher Mavics Ksyriums. never punctured a set of those, but of course a sidewal rip will end any tire and ride... even a clincher wont get you home if you get that kind of cut, as a new inner tube will spill out.

I often ride the 404 with no back up (as I'm never far from a cab home!) but can appreciate your dilema for more rural rides.  When I lived in scotland and rode tubs I'd take a spare one old-school, strrapped with and old toe-strap under the saddle... Doing that is ussually still a little bit lighter than riding clinchers with a spare tube, and its not rotating mass, so much better in performance terms.

I dont think you can go too far wrong with a Reynolds or a Zipp. Both have ridden seriously hard pro races and proved them selved over and over. 

If you have to go clincher, the full carbon is probably fine unless you're doing lots of realy high frequency hard braking... big switchback decents or insane crits.   I reckon that 99.9% of UK road races will never produce a situation where you over heat a carbon rim from braking!  total guess of course, but I simply cant imagine it from the races I've done and seen.

another option which I'm fancying myself, but have no first or second hand review of is the roues-RAR.fr wheels from the guys at http://www.rouesartisanales.over-blog.com/  ... their carbon clincher models look great. (optimale and svelte).  But if durability is a big concern for you, I have no info at al on that! Only trust given their previous work and previous reviews and tests of other brands.

 

 

 

 

 

I've got a 2010 R3 on order, while i'm waiting for it to arrive I got a pair of 2010 Zipp 404 Clydesdale clinchers (i'm 95kgs), mounted them up last night on my Sintessi and after a 30km ride this morning I'm taking the front back for a warrantee replacement (hopefully)

 

i'm hoping this isn't the start of a recurring nightmare.

 

 

Really liked the Zipp 303 Tubs as an all rounder, racing wheel. I didn't train on them.

Had Miche hubs on those, which haven't given me any trouble (3 years).

For training and racing on same wheels: Kyrium SLs or Premium SLs.

Good luck shopping!!

 A.