khsing:

Thiis defect is not simply painting impection. The bubbles were results of corrosion of the cable. If Cervelo is not able to overcome this problem, their internal cable system is not good. This problem doesn't happen on my EP or De Rosa King 3.

 

I disagree completely. Cables do not corrode on their own significantly. Even if it was, the paint should be able to handle it on the surface, especially over a carbon surface. I was responsible for the painting lines at a large General Electric plant for a few years, electrostatic, powder, spray (manual and robotic) and others so I am an expert in this area.

The bubbles are very likely (almost always) due to poor paint preparation resulting in low adhesion. This is very common near openings as material/substances can leak out from the inside of the bike or improper drying/cleaning, etc. Not a design defect, but a manufacturing defect. My bike had a couple minor, very small areas of orange peel but nothing I couldn't easily fix with some fine sandpaper and polishing compound.

I also have dealing experience with Hed. One of the wheel shipped to me damaged, was replaced immediately. That's called customer service!

Two opposite thoughts. One, the very nature of forums tend to over exaggerate the negative as most readers who have positive experiences do not post comments. It's the exception, the problem that upsets a person, that gives them reason to post. The other thought. With carbon fiber technology and the expertise in painting technology, there should never be an issue of paint defects. There are not these issues in motorcycles or cars both of which face far more adverse conditions. My only conclusion is that Cervelo is using a low quality manufacturer to keep costs down. This approach will ultimately backfire and cost them customers. Look at Toyota. At Interbike I met a man who supplied carbon fiber frames for a Canadian company (Argon) and multiple European companies. He said that he had a manufacturer in China but shipped the frames to Taiwan for painting, even though it increased his costs, because the Chinese were very poor in painting. Asian suppliers vary greatly in quality. Perhaps Cervelo should put more focus on quality control. This still does not excuse Cervelo from not taking care of the problem. The frame should have been replaced.

Perhaps my reply wasn't totally clear. What I meant to say is that any defects are COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE on a bike of this level. 

colorchange:

 

Manny:

If you don't get it, then I'll explain it to you. You buy a new frame with your hard earned money. You get what you paid for. A brand new bike without paint defects. You race your bike and slide out of a turn. Your bike, your decision , your money, your 'bad luck'. Do you get it?

Boy I sure don't "get it", and your attempted analogy is way off. You in fact got a brand new bike with hidden manufacturing defects. If in fact you had purchased a new bike without paint defects, the paint would still be fine after many years of normal use. I would not have bought my bike for the price I did if they told me the paint will bubble after a year or so. No way!

You pay a premium price and rightfully expect a premium product. Structural defects are completely unacceptable, and significant cosmetic defects should be also.

 Its Stinger 6 and they are amazing! :)

And for sure i agree that defects are unacceptable on a frame of this level. I'm still waiting for answer from my dealer and cervélo but i don't know. i'm a bit worried about what they will decide. err

Here is where Cervelo is in a bit of a tough position. The paint problem is almost assuredly a manufacturing defect, and a cosmetic one at that. From the pics, it looks to be a moderate to minor one (my opinion, other people may consider it more or less important). Now what do they do? Repair the paint? Hand out a new $5,000 frame? Offer a gift certificate? It's a difficult situation but if I ran Cervelo, I would offer discounts, etc., but if the rider really wanted it fixed I would have the frame paint repaired. It can be done without too much difficulty, ask Calfee.

 I understood what you were saying Manny.

 

It is a shame to see this. I was just looking at an S3 frame on craigslist. This could be the reason it is being sold.

Come on Cervelo...give these gents some new frames and stand behind your product!

Hi there

I am sorry to see that paint issue on your beautiful frame. And I know you spend an huge amount of money.

But the only reason why Cervélo as a company exists and builds some of the fastest frames is simply "to help customers winning races". And for sure the frame will do that.

Have you ever had a chance for a close look on a Formula 1 racing car? They look close to perfect; all the carbon parts matched to aluminum, titanium, endlessly cnc'd to shave the very last gram of weight off. However the painting doesn't look that perfect (at least the one that I saw).

A friend of mine bought one of the very first P3 back in 2000; that one came without any clearcoat. Just taking a look and the colour came off (not to mention when you cleaned it with a towel). I had a 2001 P3; colour was a bit better, however you still had to be careful.

Where those frames fast? Absolutely; simply the fastest option out there.

Did the colour hold us down from a PR? no.

IMHO Cervélo builds some of the best bikes - they might not be perfect enough for a showroom and are a bit pricey - but out in the wild they perform awesome. And that's the reason because I am still buying Cervélo bikes.

cheers

nick

 

 

 

 

 

nicknick:

Hi there

I am sorry to see that paint issue on your beautiful frame. And I know you spend an huge amount of money.

But the only reason why Cervélo as a company exists and builds some of the fastest frames is simply "to help customers winning races". And for sure the frame will do that.

Have you ever had a chance for a close look on a Formula 1 racing car? They look close to perfect; all the carbon parts matched to aluminum, titanium, endlessly cnc'd to shave the very last gram of weight off. However the painting doesn't look that perfect (at least the one that I saw).

A friend of mine bought one of the very first P3 back in 2000; that one came without any clearcoat. Just taking a look and the colour came off (not to mention when you cleaned it with a towel). I had a 2001 P3; colour was a bit better, however you still had to be careful.

Where those frames fast? Absolutely; simply the fastest option out there.

Did the colour hold us down from a PR? no.

IMHO Cervélo builds some of the best bikes - they might not be perfect enough for a showroom and are a bit pricey - but out in the wild they perform awesome. And that's the reason because I am still buying Cervélo bikes.

cheers

nick

 

 

 

 

 I must disagree with you.  While there is some validity to your point of view it is within a very narrow focus.  Cervelo's only reason for existing is NOT just for helping customers win races.  If that were true their bikes and frames would not even be available to the public.  You describe Formula 1 cars and while that may be true it is not quite the same with bicycles, that same Formula 1 car is not available for sale down at the local car dealer.  A better comparison might be against high performance production cars.  Someone buying a Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, ect would not accept a poor finish let alone one that would come off in your hand as soon as you wipe it down.  Even though all of Cervelo's bikes are race worthy they are good for much more than that and is precisely what many people use them for, and may in fact never even be raced by the majpority of their owners.  As for the finish quality I must echo the sentiments of those that maintain that the finish quality should be very good, especially on a bike costing as much as any of the carbon models do.  If one were to compare against virtually any other makers bikes in the same price range the finish quality would almost certainly be superior.  There is no reason to accept low finish quality on something costing several thousand dollars.  I do agree with you that Cervelo makes great bikes, but for what they charge they should be showroom ready and they would still perform.

I have a P2K that shows the same bubbling.  I am building up a R3SL and am a little worried about the cable stops holding up.  I had a TREK 5900 that I washed after every ride to avoid the bubbling.  After 7 years the cable stops started showing some bubbling and TREK fixed the problem under warranty a month ago. 

I am going to strip the P2K and get it powder coated on my dime (local painter $130).  I hope that it holds up better than the original paint.  Still holding on the R3SL build (have all parts except group set) since I have a 14.2lb Madone now.

I think for the $ spent the manuf's should have a better paint process that holds up better.  I can't complain about 7 years of very hard riding on my TREK, but seeing that bubbling after a few months is pretty concerning.   

Good luck.

Please keep us apprised of what Cervelo does.

I just bought a S3 and was considering a R3SL but am now more than reluctant.

Nobody's manufacturing process is perfect (just ask Toyota). All other bike manufactures have issues as well. The odds of a defect occurring on your bike is completely unpredictable. Also, it is only applicable to compare defect rates of various manufactures with complete sets of factual data that none of us have (forums may, or may not be a representative sample). My point is to be skeptical of using forum posts to predict whether or not your purchase will contain a defect. However, if you do happen to be one of the unlucky ones, I definitely agree that any manufacture with bikes in this price range should stand by their product and work with the owner on non ware-and-tear workmanship issues (at least for a reasonable amount of time - i.e. lifetime frame warranty, two year paint warranty for workmanship defects). I'm not a paint expert, but it seems most of the paint issues would be simple for a professional to repair.

If you can stand riding a bike with bubbles, just buy it.