All other things being equal, which bike would you say handles better on a steep, twisty descent, and why?  S2 or R3?  

Does anybody have any descending tips? I'm always the slowest one going downhill. I guess I'm sk33red and hit the brakes a lot.

huphtur:

Does anybody have any descending tips? I'm always the slowest one going downhill. I guess I'm sk33red and hit the brakes a lot.

Gain weight. Then you can catch up to the guys who beat you up the hill.

I would think the R3 would be a better handling bike down hill but slower.

Jasann:

Gain weight. Then you can catch up to the guys who beat you up the hill.

 

LOL. That's not my problem. In fact I'm pretty much the heaviest (200lbs) out of the group I always ride with. If it's a long and straight descent I'm blasting by everyone. But when it comes to cornering I'm no bueno.

goodshot:

All other things being equal, which bike would you say handles better on a steep, twisty descent, and why?  S2 or R3?  

It does not make any difference.  Both bikes share identical geometry, so any differnence in descending would come down to the rider.

You don't mention straight line, or twisty bits.

 I used to be able to make time on the descents -- even at 60 kg -- then I had a crash, and now I pull the brakes too much...  Do you do it for fun or money?

When I use my corima wheels, I can keep up on the straight descents no problem.  When I use ksyriums, I gotta pedal like crazy, and I still lose.

you need to lower your centre of gravity by bending your torso down towards the ground.

http://www.videoplayer.hu/videos/play/407560

cancellara does it quite well - notice how on the sharp turns he dips his torso down?

also, proper leg position is important. if you're turning left, your left leg should be up (right leg down), and if you're turning right, your right leg should be up (left leg down). note that you should also stick your leg out slightly (again - see the cancellara vid).

anyway, i don't suggest taking descents like cancellara does without a wee bit of practice, but hopefully this gets you just a little bit closer ;)

Get the entry speed right. if your entry speed to a corner is above what you are comfortable with you will tense up, probably straighten up and the corner is ruined.

I can't speak directly to the S2-R3 thing but I can say that when I changed the fork on my SLC from the Wolf CL to the Funda it became much more stable when riding down hill.  I think I left 3 years worth of breaks on one particular twisty long downhill.  I know if you look here you will find threads relating to the effects of cross wind on the soloist but I live where the wind blows a lot and the change out of the fork did more for the handling than I could possibly imagine suggesting that the frame was not the issue in the wind.  As for going fast down hill, I do not get to ride down mountain switchbacks at home.  I have had only one such experience this fall and I think it does come down to fear, or lack thereof and experience.  On a straight downhill I have to draft my buddies because they weigh about 20 lbs (10 kilos) more than me and they simply slide away from me, I do not have the inertial mass to keep up even though I should be more aero, it does not provide enough advantage to overcome their advantage in weight.  This happens over and over no matter how much I tuck or even get on my aero bars they squirt away if I am not right in the draft, or I peddle to keep up, when they are coasting.

The Cancellera video is really neat, and I have to say it is a great explanation of technique in descending. 

 You've just got to be borderline insane to descend fast.  The bike will handle better than you can imagine, whatever you do don't lock up the brakes.  You just need to find it's limits and push them.  The S2 would be more aero and faster, so I would say it would be faster. 

1406racer:

   It does not make any difference.  Both bikes share identical geometry, so any differnence in descending would come down to the rider.

Well, yes the geometry is the same, but the engineering and frame structures are designed completely different; the R3 with its Sqouval down tube and thinner seat stays, vs. the S2 and its Areo down tube and beefier seat stays.  Those design and build differences alone would have to make the bikes handle differently, although though those differences might be subtle.  That's what I'd like to her experiences and opinoins on. 

SLC:

You've just got to be borderline insane to descend fast.

When descending, basically sit on the top tube with back touching seatpost, knees tucked in and touching the down tube, hands on bar tops + elbows tucked if the corners are mild, hands on drops if corners are sharper. There is a great pic from this year's Giro where one guy was doing this in the rain, stage 14-15 maybe, got the most aggressive award for that day. This technique let me match descent speed with someone around 50-60 lbs. heavier and riding disc+404. The only drawbacks are that you can't pedal and big bumps feel like you got sacked.

 I've tried possitions like that.  It does work.  I've actually found on the biggest hill I decend on around here, that tucking in and coasting with the pedals level is faster than trying to pedal at that speed.  It was crazy.  I love going fast on descents.  Don't let my last post fool you, I am borderline insane. 

There are some tips that might help, apart from overcoming anxiety (which is a good thing..); at least from what I learned from experienced descenders: Always break before the curve, never in the curve. Before the curve use both breakes; in the curve, if necessary, only the rear break, but keep pressure on the front wheel (important). As mentioned earlier, stretch your outer leg and put weight on your pedal. In that way you both lower the centre of gravity and stabilize the frame. To get a smooth transition into the curve and get you into that corner, before the curve look into the corner. It will help you twist your body/shoulders and the bike will follow. One other thing that helps me in cornering is to put pressure on the inner curve of your steerer. Obviously the most important thing is gaining confidence in your bike and yourself so that descending becomes a joy. R3 2008, where italy meets germany

For anyone that rides motorcycles, turning on a bicycle is second nature. Out in out, breaking before the corner, weight inside. It becomes common sense at fast speeds with a LOT of practice at slow speeds. Be careful.