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New S5 VS Old S5

Last post 07-18-2020 8:27 PM by Kookie. 11 replies.
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  • 10-19-2014 11:36 PM

    New S5 VS Old S5

    This is the point that bothers me..... "COMPONENT SPECIFICATION Out of the box, the new S5 saves 21.3 Watts compared to the previous S5. New HED Jet 6 Plus SCT wheels greatly contribute to both aerodynamics and ride quality with their 25mm wide rims, and new Continental tires provide a confident grip. The new S5 is offered in three Shimano groupset levels: Dura-Ace Di2, Dura-Ace, and Ultegra." Does the frame save 21.3 watts? or does it save 21.3 watts frame rims and aero bars...... if that's that case I don't care about the bars.... I don't care about the rims.... If you are S5 owner like many of you are how much is actually save framed to frame? that's what I want to know. David? Lets be honest 90% of if not more s5 owners have a set of aero rims... and they can buy the bar... I would like to see REAL numbers.... frame to frame.... don't get me wrong it fits 25's so that crowd is happy, its stiffer ok... we all have heard my argument there lol.... but please frame to frame.... whats the savings?
    2011 S3
    2011 R3 (Warrantied)
    2014 R3
    Garmin 800(RIP)
    Garmin 1000
    2014 Beyond the Forum Rider
  • 10-20-2014 7:57 AM In reply to

    • Kookie
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-04-2012
    • Toronto
    • Posts 443

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    http://www.bikerumor.com/2014/08/27/eb14-cervelo-ups-the-aero-road-ante-again-with-a-new-s5-plus-updated-rca/

    So from my understanding, 26% of the watts saved is coming from the frameset (frame, fork, seatpost ~ 5.54 watts).

    Biggest gains coming from the handlebar and wheels (51% -~10.86 watts)

     

    2017 Cervelo S5 SRAM eTap
    2018 Cervelo R5 Classics Edition Limited Frameset
  • 10-20-2014 3:43 PM In reply to

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    My only beef with the new S5 aero bar is that you can't use the Garmin Fly Bar (or others) on it, which means the only place to mount the Garmin would be on the stem...
    2009 S2, SRAM Rival, 50/34 Rotor Q-Rings, Mavic Cosmic Pro Carbons / Mavic Ksyrium SLs 7.2Kg
  • 10-20-2014 6:17 PM In reply to

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    I tend to agree golefsgo5, if they do not separate out the wheels and the handle bar that is playing the marketing department games, what is the real difference frame to frame. that is what we have been marketed by Cervelo for years.... now they talk about a complete bike according to the bike rumor (if correct), the front wheels (both wheels together 21%, though you could argue the rear might be attributed to the frame improvement) and frame are the same 16% of the saving. So the frame is a real 3.4 watts saved? For a power meter that is well within the instrumental error for most meters in a situation where you really care at over 250 watts. The higher the watts output the larger the error for a typical meter at 3% then 21.3 watts is just better than the error (ie 3% error of 710 watts is 21.3 wtts) Please Cervelo don't become another marketing company, stick to the facts like you always did. 84% is from other things, some of which you might attribute to a new frame design like bottles, brake placement, fork, rear wheel placement..... It is nice to take a systems approach but it is rare for two bikes to be set up exactly alike, the only true commonality is the base frame. But on an aesthetics point of view the new head tube and general shapes make a very handsome frame, I suspect that the 58 and 60 cm frames won't looks quite so odd. I love my 2013 S5 and can feel it is more stable in cross winds than my 2013 S2 and if the word on the street is correct the new S3 is more stable again, then the new S5 could be a truly wonderful bike, the holy grail of good comfort, aero, stability, tire/wheel clearance, etc, etc.. so it looks like Cervelo may have moved their yardstick again, let's hope, I am fickle and need another frame to lust after ;-)
  • 10-20-2014 8:24 PM In reply to

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    Even if they got 0 watts out of it, what is the big deal?  They increased stiffness like crazy without sacrificing weight. 

    What you are seeing is that we are reaching diminishing returns for aero.  It's going to take big changes that have consequences to get further.  The addition of the aero bar and other changes are focusing on looking at an improvement of the entire system.  It's only natural to report the benefit to the whole system.  

    Let's make it easy for all of you.  There is no aero change from an old S5 to a new S5.  The new S5 will be way stiffer, more comfortable, and have racier geometry.  That's it.  

    It's about 4-5 watts faster than a S3/S2.  You decide if that's worthwhile or not.  

     

     

     

     

  • 10-20-2014 9:17 PM In reply to

    • 1UCLAman
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 06-25-2011
    • Pico Rivera, CA
    • Posts 169

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    JustKeepPedaling:
     

      The new S5 will be way stiffer, more comfortable, and have racier geometry.  That's it.  

    It's about 4-5 watts faster than a S3/S2.  You decide if that's worthwhile or not.  


     

      

     

    This, plus a color scheme that I LOVE!!!

     

    2010 S1 with full SRAM Red gruppo and Williams S38 wheelset. Zipp Service Course SL Stem and Zipp SL Bar, Fizik Antares VS saddle. Zipp bottle cages.

    2014 Beyond the Forum Participant

    2018 R5d Classics - full Sram Red mechanical, Mavic pro carbon disc wheels, Cervelo AB06 bars with Cervelo stem. Antares R1 Versus Evo seat
  • 10-21-2014 5:12 AM In reply to

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    1UCLAman:

    JustKeepPedaling:
     

      The new S5 will be way stiffer, more comfortable, and have racier geometry.  That's it.  

    It's about 4-5 watts faster than a S3/S2.  You decide if that's worthwhile or not.  


     

      

     

    This, plus a color scheme that I LOVE!!!

     

    now we are down to brass tacks.... the point for me is still that it will be a great bike, just that the marketing seems rather un-Cervelo like, since regardless of the system it will differ from bike to bike. I do like the look of the bike, and if it rides as well or dare I say better than my current S5 well then it is a nice bike! and maybe now the new MTN guys will ride it to its full advantage, I would love to have the problem to decide, R5, S3, S5, which will I ride today? Though I sort of understand the different stack reach for the bike, it then means that you need to set up differently when you go from the R5, S3 to the S5. Time will tell if that is an issue or a good call. Will a lower stack lead to fewer riders choosing it for the long ride vs the S3?
  • 10-21-2014 6:57 AM In reply to

    • Jimster
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 12-31-2013
    • Barrhaven, Ontario, Canada
    • Posts 299

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    It's just like vehicles....manufacturers says every year newer there is always improvements and better on power, mileage, etc.... Bottom line, you won't know until you actually try it out on a good test drive.
    Cervelo 2016 S3 (Ultegra, Zipp 303 Firecrest Tubulars, Adamo Road Seat, QXL Chainring)

    Cervelo 2013 R3 (Ultegra, Zipp 303 Firecrest Tubulars) SOLD

    Cervelo 2013 P5 Three (Dura Ace 11 Spd, Zipp Sub 9 Disc Tubular, Zipp 808 Firecrest Front Tubular, 53 Tooth QXL Ring, Time Trial Seat)


    Cervelo 2011 P2 (Ultegra) SOLD

    Specialized Rockhopper 29er Comp


    Garmin Edge 520


  • 10-22-2014 9:03 AM In reply to

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    I am on my second R5 and I can now say that the new S5 is a bike i could by. The weight is down a bit, the comfort is up a bit, and the rear cut out clearance is fixed. I would never run 25mm clinchers so that doesn't appeal to me. Enve does not recommend 25mm tires for my 6.7 wheels.
  • 05-23-2020 9:41 AM In reply to

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    Still have my 2012 S5 but thinking it time for a new bike due to tire clearance issues?
  • 06-25-2020 9:36 AM In reply to

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    For the record, I am running Bora One 50s on a 2018 framset, with 27mm Veloflex Raven tubulars and I don't have any rubbing issues. You certainly aren't limited to 25s. I just find the profile of the new handlebars hideous.
  • 07-18-2020 8:27 PM In reply to

    • Kookie
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-04-2012
    • Toronto
    • Posts 443

    Re: New S5 VS Old S5

    Just noticed the 2021 S5 now come with power meters. Definitely tempting to upgrade, wondering how much of a difference the ride would be.
    2017 Cervelo S5 SRAM eTap
    2018 Cervelo R5 Classics Edition Limited Frameset
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