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Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

Last post 12-10-2014 1:06 PM by iammike. 32 replies.
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  • 11-10-2014 1:17 PM

    • iammike
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 06-29-2012
    • Portland, OR
    • Posts 13

    Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    Just adding my name to the list. I'm the second owner (had ~200 miles on it when I bought it) so my local shop wouldn't even give me the time of day. I put in an inquiry to the general contact form on this site, but don't suspect I'll get anywhere despite this being an acknowledged problem with the bikes that have the vertical dropout bolt design. How was there not a recall? I discovered this after a 35mph descent; could have been really bad for my body.

    Likely looking at a repair from Ruckus (I'm in Portland) for $400-$600 and this being the last Cervélo I ride. A shame because I really like the way the bike goes and have shared that positive opinion with so many... I can no longer recommend something that doesn't last.

    Bike has about 10k miles on it now.

    Pictures added because everybody likes those. The crack comes up from the backside of the top bolt. Apologies for the sacrilegious uncleanliness of the bike, but that's a single ride in the PacNW fall :)


    2011 Cervélo R3 (Rival) | 2012 Ridley X-Fire (Red) | 2014 Trek Madone 2.1 (105) | 2010 Scott Scale 29er | 2012 Surly Cross-Check
  • 11-10-2014 1:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

     I'm confused, the bike has 200 miles on it, or you bought it when it had 200 miles on it and have since put 9800 miles on it?

    2014 R3
  • 11-10-2014 1:36 PM In reply to

    • iammike
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 06-29-2012
    • Portland, OR
    • Posts 13

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    It had 200 on it when I bought it. I might as well be the original owner, but I understand warranties don't carry that sort of flex. But to me, ownership is a moot point and nothing more than a loophole for the industry to jump through in order to get out of supporting their products.
    2011 Cervélo R3 (Rival) | 2012 Ridley X-Fire (Red) | 2014 Trek Madone 2.1 (105) | 2010 Scott Scale 29er | 2012 Surly Cross-Check
  • 11-10-2014 1:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    I would still call Cervelo. See what they say. Here the "No" directly from them rather than the dealer. Worth a shot.
    2014 R3 Frame w/ 2013 R3 105 Components
    2012 Cannondale CAADX
    1971 Schwinn Le Tour II
  • 11-10-2014 1:44 PM In reply to

    • iammike
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 06-29-2012
    • Portland, OR
    • Posts 13

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    I'll definitely be exhausting my efforts with Cervelo before moving onto the repair. Does anyone have any contacts other than the general site inquiry? If I get back a canned response, I'll be pretty unhappy. I do have the contact info for Phil (CEO), but I'm not that disgruntled yet ;)
    2011 Cervélo R3 (Rival) | 2012 Ridley X-Fire (Red) | 2014 Trek Madone 2.1 (105) | 2010 Scott Scale 29er | 2012 Surly Cross-Check
  • 11-10-2014 2:50 PM In reply to

    • trex021
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 01-11-2013
    • Minneapolis
    • Posts 269

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    iammike, I feel for you, I really do. I have to say though that if warranties were transferable, the resale price would be higher. There would be more demand for a used Cervelo. You got a better deal because you didn't get a warranty. I really hope they help you out though.
  • 11-11-2014 12:06 AM In reply to

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    The most telling evidence from your pics are the very deep and scattered locknut grooves and indentations left by what appears to be a skewer very much over torqued, and a wheel that may not have been fully seated in the dropouts. Specifically, a wheel that is set and torqued correctly on a dropout will fall in the same place (or very close to) within the dropouts every time you mount it, and not leave the somewhat elliptical pattern of indentations on the dropout face, indicating that a wheel may have been torqued without first being set all the way in the dropouts. Granted, using different wheels with different locknut diameters may leave different size marks on the dropouts, but if properly mounted, the circular marks would be overlaid with the other marks and not spread across the entire dropout face. Also, the crack behind the bolt appears to begin on the inner side of dropout, again consistent with overtorquing skewer or improper mounting of wheel.

    EM3

  • 11-11-2014 1:27 AM In reply to

    • iammike
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 06-29-2012
    • Portland, OR
    • Posts 13

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    Eddy, thanks for your insight. You sound far more knowledgeable than me on the subject so perhaps you're right.

    That said, I'm pretty certain I'm not overtorquing; I used to work in a shop in which I wasn't even able to open a skewer that the head mechanic put on. While I'm no weenie, I do tighten to an amount that is still openable with my fingers without gritting my teeth. I have to believe that's not overtorqued.

    I'm also quite religious about seating wheels properly and I'm not really seeing the elliptical indentations you describe. Are you sure it isn't the slight angle I took the photo at? I'll take a perfect shot tomorrow and digitally overlay a circle to check this.

    I do use three different wheels on the bike so that may account for some of the variation you describe?

    Thanks again for your opinion.
    2011 Cervélo R3 (Rival) | 2012 Ridley X-Fire (Red) | 2014 Trek Madone 2.1 (105) | 2010 Scott Scale 29er | 2012 Surly Cross-Check
  • 11-11-2014 6:32 AM In reply to

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    The locknut groove is pretty darn deep. Definitely looks like skewer was massively over-tightened. This puts the carbon fiber in compression (which it is weak in). Likely went over the limit and caused a stress concentration between the bolts
  • 11-11-2014 9:46 AM In reply to

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    It looks to me the wheel was over-tightened and pressed on the screw creating a crack.

    I wouldn't jump to blame Cervelo, I have seen this on other makes.

    Ask Cervelo about where to repair. I don't know where you are located, but Calfee does repairs. 

  • 11-11-2014 9:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

     Sorry to hear about the frame damage. Cervelo did redesign that dropout. Why don't you try approaching the original owner, give them the money it would cost you to repair it and see if they'd be willing to do the warranty claim for you? This way at least you'd get a new frame instead of a repaired one for the same cost.

     

    good luck. 

    2013 R3 Sram Red/Rotor 3D+
    2012 S5 Sram Red/Rotor 3D+

    DA C24 9000 Wheelset
  • 11-11-2014 10:39 AM In reply to

    • iammike
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on 06-29-2012
    • Portland, OR
    • Posts 13

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    The original owner is no longer with this world :/

    So what's the trick to properly torquing a QR on a carbon bike? Hand tight without exertion has always been my method. On my cross bike (carbon, but full aluminum dropout) if I don't get it this tight, I get creaking.
    2011 Cervélo R3 (Rival) | 2012 Ridley X-Fire (Red) | 2014 Trek Madone 2.1 (105) | 2010 Scott Scale 29er | 2012 Surly Cross-Check
  • 11-11-2014 12:31 PM In reply to

    • goodboyr
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-16-2007
    • Thornhill, Ontario
    • Posts 966

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    This is a very interesting thread. It made me remove my rear wheel, clean up the dropout and take a good picture of it with the lighting at an angle, so relief is emphasized. What do you experts make of mine? Overtorqued? I have zipps and am extremely cautious as to how tight. I think that at normal QR tensions, you will get indentation of the carbon. I don't think that in itself is the issue, but perhaps as EM3 pointed out, if the wheel isn't seated correctly when you clamp on the QR, you may get stress in the wrong places. Comments? (Ps. The line is a deep scratch, not a crack. I cleaned it up  and examined under magnifying glass to make sure. )

     

     

    Bobbo
    2015 COR
    '06 R3, Fully Internal Dura Ace 7970, Zipp 303FC Clinchers
    S5 Team, Ultegra Di2, Zipp 101
    RCA 56cm, Dura Ace 9070, Zipp 404 FC Tubbies

  • 11-11-2014 1:01 PM In reply to

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    Do you use your bike on any rollers or training system? If so, use different skewers?

  • 11-11-2014 1:13 PM In reply to

    • goodboyr
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 08-16-2007
    • Thornhill, Ontario
    • Posts 966

    Re: Another 2011 R3 with a cracked rear dropout

    Nope. Thats my outside bike. I use my R3 on the trainer. The RCA has never had anything except zipps.
    Bobbo
    2015 COR
    '06 R3, Fully Internal Dura Ace 7970, Zipp 303FC Clinchers
    S5 Team, Ultegra Di2, Zipp 101
    RCA 56cm, Dura Ace 9070, Zipp 404 FC Tubbies

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